Talking about your pay with others is awkward, but don’t shy away from it

It’s a hot topic globally. The European Union is set to make pay transparency a binding measure for member states.

Last year, US actor Gabrielle Union called out the unspoken wage disparity between black and white female actors.

And tweets by a Californian Facebook product designer, Lily Konings, were widely shared after she wrote about discovering she was being paid $US30,000 less than her colleagues.

Victoria Devine, the Melbourne-based financial adviser behind the podcast and book She’s On The Money, says pay transparency is a huge subject in her community of mostly millennial women.

“This is a conversation that I’m having quite literally every day with people,” says Devine.

Her posts on Instagram and TikTok about the subject have drawn a large response.

Devine stresses that equal pay is not just a women’s issue. “Yes women are feeling the brunt of it, but there are men in positions where they’re being paid less than their counterparts,” she says.

Devine points to a troubling disconnect: Australian businesses are legally required to provide equal pay to employees performing equal work, yet it’s legal for employers to force staff not to tell anybody else what they’re paid, leaving workers clueless about pay discrepancies.

In one of the first legal challenges relating to pay secrecy clauses, the Finance Sector Union last year launched a claim against the Commonwealth Bank for sacking an employee in part because he discussed his salary with colleagues.

“No one should ever feel obligated to tell, but I think that we really should be promoting healthy conversation about pay.”

Victoria Devine

Maurice Blackburn employment lawyer Rohan Tate says litigation is rare but the culture of pay secrecy breeds self-censoring. He believes more openness would benefit workers by putting upward pressure on pay, with many Australians already feeling the pressure of low wage growth.

Personal finance website Finder surveyed more than 1000 Australians and just over three-quarters felt they couldn’t talk openly about their salary. The research found that men and younger workers were more likely than women and older workers to feel comfortable broaching the subject.

Devine believes that talking more openly about how much we earn can benefit both our career – particularly when the conversation is between people in similar jobs – and lifestyle, for example in friendship groups where individuals have wildly different salaries. “It helps you to understand why certain people achieve what they can achieve financially, and others can’t,” Devine says.

But the deep-seated discomfort around the topic isn’t entirely unfounded. As much as Devine would like it not to be, salary remains a sensitive topic. There are times it’s better to keep quiet, she says. A friend might react badly if they discover they’re much lower paid, or someone might feel embarrassed by their low or high wage. And you risk getting your boss offside if they find out you’ve swapped salary information, so you need to trust your colleagues.

Devine calls for a rethink of the way we tie together salary with our identity and self-worth. “No one should ever feel obligated to tell, but I think that we really should be promoting healthy conversation about pay,” she says. “Your salary is not in any way a reflection of the value you hold as a person.”

With that mindset shift, Devine hopes salary will someday become part of normal conversation.

If you’re ready to bring up salary with someone, Devine recommends first reflecting on why you want to have the conversation in the first place. Are you just being nosy? Or do you genuinely feel uncomfortable about your wage and want to discuss it?

Don’t blurt out your salary and expect someone to reciprocate, Devine advises. Ask for permission to have the conversation and let the other person think about whether they’re OK with sharing.

Georgousakis believes the best time to test the waters with colleagues is during a period of workplace restructures or performance reviews. She recommends people break the ice by addressing the discomfort. “I actually called it out and said, ‘this is a little bit awkward, but do you feel comfortable sharing?’ … Quite often they would sit and think and come back to me later to have that conversation.”

There are also ways to talk about salary without disclosing a specific amount. You can give a range instead, or you can swap advice on how to negotiate better pay. And job sites such as Glassdoor allow people to anonymously provide and view wage information.

Georgousakis left her job as a scientist in June to work full-time on an organisation she founded, Franklin Women, which supports women in STEM careers. She now has two employees. “That’s made me close the loop … It’s forced me to think about the other side and make sure within my organisation I’m really clear about justifying why salaries are what they are.”

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